Ben: Hey its Ben Brown founder of Chainwave. Today I’m here with the co-founders of Wallphy, a blockchain application we just finished the first build on. Really excited to talk with them today and learn more about our relationship and get their app into your guy’s hands and really explore how our relationship works and how the build went for them. So I’m going to kick it off with Chad. Could you guys tell me a little more about the business model you’ve gone for. You know since the inception of it and where you started?

Chad: Yeah sure! I think it makes a lot of sense to start, you know long before the idea germinated. You know we’re fairly new into crypto. I spent the last few years; you know probably four years following it. A lot of friends nudging me and saying, “hey you know, you should look into this. You should get into this, its right up your alley”. Over the last 18 months I really started to dip a toe in and you know really take some positions and look into projects and started exploring. One thing I found, you know, not long after kind of diving into the deep end of the pool is that you know, for all of the information that’s out there. Which there’s just a tremendous amount. There are not a lot of tools that allow people trying to explore the projects that are coming out to really dig into them. You know, there’s a lot of charting tools and things like that, but there’s nothing that really cuts through and shows what’s going on at the wallet level behind, the chart. And so, you know that really is the first idea that took hold which is what ultimately became Wallphy. Its like hey how do we get a tool; you know into the hands of anyone that’s just trying to do some more research and really look at what’s happening at the wallet level. And that was kind of the root of it. So, everything that came from that, is sort of born out of the idea.

Ben: That’s great! Yeah, it’s really a great idea, which is kind of why we took on your project. We were really aligned with the vision of helping investors small and large. To get access to that data right. That unique data set. So what business are you in Evan in normally?

Evan: Well, I’ll take a turn Chad to give you a break. But I suppose the main hat that we wore, whereas with Woodlawn Partners, which is a private equity group that owns a handful of businesses that Chad and I are both focused on. I would say the people side of business but more broadly looking at optimizing systems, being comfortable with complexity but helping to create simple, repeatable processes around that kind of complexity. So, you know the craziness of all of us humans, but how can we build a business and the processes around identifying, optimizing, and kind of repeating best practices around people and small businesses? So oddly, this you know, I think what we’re doing with Wallphy fits in certainly more of a technology focused effort there. But it’s really all about you know, unraveling and kind of demystifying some of these complex patterns so that people can find certainty to act on. So that’s what got us excited. We went a little bit down the rabbit hole and now thankfully we found the Chainwave guys to turn this into reality before we just completely spun ourselves out.

Ben: That’s great! Thank you for that background. So before you came to us and we met. What were you doing before that? Like in your research and searching for groups?

Chad: Ben quite a bit. So there are a number of folks that we had talked to, within the industry, and different developers. We sort of sketched out the initial idea of, hey this is what an app could look like. We started the process of you know, reaching out to people and just like the kind of gig economy folks first and then ultimately wound up talking to more. But I would say more brick-and-mortar development shops and programmers and engineers and things. We just went through a vetting process, I would say. Was it about 2 months, Evan? We had multiple meetings. We got to second base a few times. You know, there’s a lot out there, it’s a pretty dynamic space. So, there’s a lot more work I think, than there are quality shops. So, it was a real challenge for us to find someone that really understood what we were trying to do versus just taking out something to check a box on a page.

Evan: I guess another detail and kind of what else we found. We knew from prior experiences and we talked to what I would consider traditional dev shops and the basics of the app was something they would be very comfortable with, you know databases, easy access. But both groups were kind of seriously talking about were not only a little uncomfortable getting into the blockchain world. But almost, you know kind of reluctant to do it. It was odd that there was almost like this not sure we want to believe this is real. We don’t really know what we’re doing and that’s uncomfortable. We could try it, we could fake it, maybe you could be our guinea pig. But the real tipping point was that like reluctance of an apprehension about jumping in and learning something new versus an excitement about it. And so, when we found you guys, obviously you had the background that you could be credible and confident, but I think the approach was also very different because our application. I mean like everything in the blockchain is novel to some degree, it seems like. But we were really comforted by the fact that you guys took it like yeah, we think we can do that and we’re excited about where we can go with this. That really clicked with us because I think Wallphy is very much a beginning and not a finished product. Yeah, this is to Chad’s kind of toe in the water, now we’re stepping in. But I think one of the biggest sources of excitement for us is that we don’t know where this going to go. We see that’s its something of value. But even in the current market environment we know that there’s more we could do with it. But knowing that the market is going to change before we even get there, it’s kind of the fun part. I think we really latched on with you guys with that same excitement about, oh god, you know, phase two could be this and then who know and wouldn’t it be crazy? Okay. Yeah. Back to work. Let’s get something out there. But that was a cool process and it just clicked really strongly philosophically with how we were looking at this versus a lot of other dev shops that kind of wanted to be told what to do. Wanted to deliver a product and send us the bill. So, we’ve been thrilled and it’s played out that the way this has gone down. I think has been consistent with that.

Ben: Great Yeah! We’re all so excited to work on this project. I mean we don’t take any projects. We take on the ones we feel that are philosophically aligned and also great opportunities, right? So, we can have a long-term successful relationship. So, I’m with you on that one. The whole team is with you on that one too. So where do you guys feel like you’ve received the most value out of this process? I think you mentioned some points there Evan, in your answer. I’m interested in seeing how you expresses the value points of our relationship.

Chad: I’ll jump in on that first. You know, for me the process was fairly in depth. So, the value is really clear, that you guys were taking this project serious. You allowed us to sort of uncover you know, in some of the early stages where you were asking questions like, hey, you know, you said this, but what about that? You know, I think you’re trying to get here, have you thought about doing this? I think the finished product is or least the one we’re going to launch with is a lot different, I think than it may have been if not for some of those early conversations where you guys made some suggestions and really dug into it with us. So, it truly felt like we were doing this together versus you know, hey here’s a punch list.

Ben: Great thanks! Yeah, we are in it together whether you like it or not (haha). So whatever kind of problems we’re trying to solve with the team, finding the right team, finding the right people that are aligned with you, and I think you expressed some of those frustrations too. So, lets get to what results you’ve received from our relationship, and how do you perceive those results coming in the future?

Chad: Well, I mean for starters we have a great app that’s getting ready to launch. I think the results, you know will sort of speak for themselves. I think through the process even when there were bugs or issues and things, you guys were all over it. So, I mean nothing’s perfect out of you know, version 0.0.1. Then we have to iterate and go back and log in and look for things. You guys have been very active, even surprisingly so compared to some other outside of crypto world development projects that I’ve been a part of. I’m used to hearing a lot of well that’s outside of scope. You guys were great with sort of balancing probably including a few things that may have been outside of scope, but also understanding that like hey this is necessary to get a good product out. So, there’s a lot of value there.

Evan: Well, I would like to add to that Chad. We’ve had some shared pain on, in my default, this was a new relationship going on with you guys. We thought we were going to be a little bumped and a little bruised, but it would work. But we’ve had experiences where projects just, you know, there’s an issue and it’s just like, well you know, that’s not a bug, it’s a feature. It’s like well you didn’t want that, but this is kind of all we can do, so we’re giving you something different. You’re welcome. We had a lot of that, like oh well, we can’t really do that. So we’re going to do this other thing that you didn’t ask for, but we’re going to convince you it’s good enough. And I think Ben most directly to answer your question, we got delivered the product we wanted with some enhancements because we had multiple heads together and it was on time and on budget as promised. That’s a big deal in my experience, and maybe I just worked with the wrong people, but particularly in something where we dint know how this was going to come together. Now Chad and I worked on, you know, kind of SQL database kind of stuff. Are you guys creating a new user interface or, you know pulling data? We can easily say okay I can see this; I know this, this should work. Then hoping you get there. There’s a little bit of a creative leap on this that we thought it should work, you know, that the blockchain should cooperate. But we had real questions about the amount of data that can be processed. Some of the visualization, how things are going to pull just it isn’t going to really work, because it’s not just pulling stuff out of one static database. There was a huge degree of gratitude that this just happened because unfortunately that was not guaranteed. We started sending you guys’ money, and were doing the expected value. It was like okay; we sent a deposit. I’d say you know, 80% chance this works. Therefore, is this cool? I mean that’s where we were going into this, quite candidly. So just the fact that we made it to the finish line is a big deal. So, thank you.

Ben: No thank you. I appreciate the words. So, like to that point, kind of getting something out of that. What areas of your guy’s business or lives have improved? Stress levels or what has been a result of this project?

Chad: Yeah. I think excitement is definitely of a click or two. We’re getting ready to launch. It’s frankly just a startup into blockchain crypto world, and that’s super exciting. People always use the analogy of the internet in 1994 and that, I think is pretty accurate. This is just so so early and that’s super exciting. So that’s meaningful. There’s a lot of businesses that can be kind of boring frankly. Now, this is definitely not boring.

Ben: Yeah. Welcome to the wild west.

Evan: You know, to add to that point. We talked to a lot of folks on either side of this. People who have no idea what you’re talking about or people that are so deep in something technical that, you know, they’re already in it and we can’t hang with them. What we like about this is we’ve created something that allows kind of a common person to really interact in this world. Not, you know buy Bitcoin, speculate on shit coin, or just read about it. But this is a tool that fairly informed people that want to do some work and really get engaged and kind of look under the hood and start to get into this. So yeah, we’re excited that it’s a legitimately valued project. It’s not speculative nonsense or it’s not some crazy technical infrastructure thing that guys like us wouldn’t belong with. We like that bridge. In fact, we’re trying it in other things in the advance of this kind of build, more in that middle between kind of curious speculator and like the total insider engineer side. So, yeah that’s been another thing. We’re excited to see where it’s going, but we like to think that this a cool area we can continue to build more and meet other people who are doing more to kind of develop out the space, kind of common user accessible stuff.

Ben: Great! That’s good to hear. To reiterate, our position on the space makes things easier to get into the blockchain space, being an outlet for the migration. And being there to help guide the sherpa of that migration. So that’s great. Thank you. This might be a sensitive question, but what is your guy’s perceived ROI? What’s your end goal with this and how to you see this application fulfilling that?

Chad: Yes. Well, there’s a lot to unpack there. I mean, really, it’s how we view this project, is sort of the landing craft on the beach. Right? So, this isn’t really the end goal. This project should lead to more similar projects and sort of fit into the same ecosystem. So, this could be the launching point for an entire educational platform around crypto and blockchain. This is during cartography the study of wallets, you know, what’s next that’s related to that. So, it may even be things that don’t exist yet. You know, two years ago DeFi wasn’t really a thing.  So, that’s kind of how we view this. It’s like okay, now we’re in and now let’s tear some shit up, right? Let’s figure this out. That’s the exciting part. So, ask me that again in six months and I can probably give you a better answer. But this is sort of the you know, the beachhead.

Ben: Great! Well, I could be along for the ride too. So, looking back a little bit, where did you first hear about us? I know you guys did your vetting process, and that was a two-month long thing. Where did you first hear about us? What made you decide us? What made you decide to pull the trigger?

Evan: We were referred to you guys through a friend, business acquaintance. A guy that I’ve known in the Chicago developer world for a long time, and I’ve lost track of him in Covid, and everything else. And then was mentioned again, hey you should get back in touch with this guy. He’s building something blockchain and it turns out it’s turning into a fairly massive, God you know, I would say kind of infrastructure company. So, we reconnected and I explained what we were doing and said, you know we’re doing this little rinky dink, training wheels, consumer facing thing relative to stuff you’re doing that I don’t understand. Who do you know that can help us out? So, that’s how we got to you guys. It was within an endorsement which we like but not always available, but kind of a friend of a friend thing. You know, gave us that comfort. I mentioned the other groups we were talking to. That was a similar path to some other shops. For this sort of thing, that’s how we like to work. We weren’t just Google-ing people.

Ben: Great! Yeah. So, we’ve kind of got a great view of our relationship. I really appreciate the kind words that really means a lot to us. You know, we put a lot of hard work into this and we really value you guys. So, how likely are you guys to recommend us? Why should someone engage with us?

Chad: Well, that’s easy. We’re already talking about V2 for Wallphy for you right now. So, it’s easy to recommend someone that we believe enough and are going to continue working together. Now that’s kind of the highest order of magnitude on recommendations. I think the short answer is why should someone work with Chainwave, that was the last ten questions right? It’s meaningful work. It’s building a relationship, it’s not transactional. You know, those things are really important. A lot of times these projects are near and dear to our hearts. I’m sure that’s true of anyone reaching out to you guys or any developer. It’s nice to have an ally in that.

Ben: Great! Thank you. Last question to round up this interview. What can we improve on for you guys?

Chad: I think you did a really, really great job overall. The weekly calls were great. I think that was extremely helpful. You know, maybe like a more real time access to some of the kind of mapping stuff that you guys look at internally. You know, you have your own visual map of where the project is. It would have been great to have like a user where we could get into that, because a lot of times between out weekly calls. Evan and I are talking and we’re thinking, you know where they are on this? I don’t know, we didn’t talk about that. It’s like okay that’s another email. If we could have had access to that, I think it may have cut down at least on some of the emails. It’s like oh no, here they’re working on it right now. You know that kind of thing.

Ben: Thanks for the feedback. I think that’s definitely something we can provide moving forward. Super helpful. Definitely will work on that. So, in closing. I want to thank both of you guys. Let anyone know watching that Wallphy’s going to be launching here in the next couple of weeks. Will have a token out, an app that you can access with that token. Its going to be really cool to see it grow. I’m excited about it. My team is excited about it, and I think this is just the start of a great product, great community, and the suite of products hopefully for you guys in your portfolio. So, that’s it from us. So, everyone please keep an eye out for Wallphy. We’ll have some links in the description and we’re sending out links along with this everywhere we can, because we fully support this project.